02 Camry - Hiding of the facts- Need help

[mike60173]

hi..


I bought a camry - 52 K from a used car dealer in NJ. Car was initially a commercial vehicle and then was used as a personal vehicle. Carfax report was OK. When I was about to buy, the check engine light was on. They said it was a 02 sensor problem and they will clear it before I actually i buy it. When I asked for report they did not give one. I ran a test for 20 point inpsection in a private facility for the code and the OBD could not detect the code because of the low battery.

On the day of buying they had cleared the codes. I presented them the check and drove the vehicle back home on 23 April 2009. On my way back home, the check engine light came on.

I changed the battery and drove the car for 10 miles so that codes could be recorded. I took the vehicle to the Toyota dealer (not used car dealer) to check the reason. The code was the catalyctic converter has to be replaced and thermo temp sensor . This fact was suppressed by the dealer when he sold.

After I replaced these items, I was getting a boiling sound from the hood. Then I took the car to the toyota dealer for checking what it is. Also engine was stalling off and on and whenever I accelerate.

When I parked my car at the toyota dealer, vehicle engine stalled and would not start. The reason quoted by the toyota dealer is Engine "Head Gasket" or could be lower block. This will be known only when the engine teardown is done. This would mean that expenses could run for anywhere between 1500 to 4000. They said this condition was pre-existing.

I contacted the used car dealer, he is saying that toyota dealer screwed everything up.

He (used car dealer) is asking me to tow the engine at my cost to his facility which is 40 miles away. I have a 60 day warranty and 2 year extended warranty.

What should I do now? Is there a way I could get my money back from the used car dealer.

Regards

Mike

[Eagle]

NJ has a used car lemon law. It looks like you have to deliver the car to the dealer for repair. Here is the law:



13:45A-26F.3 Dealer warranty; form; scope; purchaser's obligations
(a) Upon the sale of a used motor vehicle in the State of New Jersey, the dealer shall furnish the consumer with a written warranty which meets the requirements of (c) below, unless:


1. The purchase price of the used motor vehicle is less than $3,000;

2. The used motor vehicle is eight or more model years old;

3. The used motor vehicle has been declared a total loss by an insurance company and the consumer has been notified in writing of that fact at, or prior to, sale;

4. The used motor vehicle has more than 60,000 miles and the consumer elects to waive the warranty in writing pursuant to N.J.A.C. 13:45A-26F.4; or

5. The used motor vehicle has more than 100,000 miles.


(b) The written warranty shall be in the same format, and contain all of the information in, the "Used Motor Vehicle Limited Warranty" form which is appended hereto as Appendix A, incorporated herein by reference, and have at least the following minimum durations:

1. If the used motor vehicle has 24,000 miles or less, the warranty shall be, at a minimum, 90 days or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first;

2. If the used motor vehicle has more than 24,000 miles but less than 60,000 miles, the warranty shall be, at a minimum, 60 days or 2,000 miles, whichever comes first; or

3. If the used motor vehicle has 60,000 miles or more, the warranty shall be, at a minimum, 30 days or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first, unless the consumer elects to waive this warranty pursuant to the terms of N.J.A.C. 13:45A-26F.4.


(c) The written warranty shall require the dealer, during the term of the warranty, to correct the failure or malfunction of a covered item as defined in N.J.A.C. 13:45A-26F.2, provided the used motor vehicle is delivered to the dealer, at the dealer's regular place of business and subject to a deductible amount of $50.00 to be paid by the consumer for each repair of a covered item. This written warranty shall exclude repairs covered by any manufacturer's warranty or recall program, as well as repairs of a covered item required because of collision, abuse, or the consumer's failure to properly maintain such used motor vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended maintenance schedule, or from damage of a covered item caused as a result of any commercial use of the used motor vehicle, or operation of such vehicle without proper lubrication or coolant, or as a result of any misuse, negligence or alteration of such vehicle by someone other than the dealer.

(d) The warranty periods in (b) above shall be extended by any time period during which the used motor vehicle is waiting for the dealer or his agent to begin or complete repairs of a material defect of the used motor vehicle.

(e) If the dealer fails to provide the consumer with a written warranty required by N.J.S.A. 56:8-69, the dealer nevertheless shall be deemed to have given the warranty as a matter of law, unless a waiver has been signed by the consumer in accordance with N.J.S.A. 56:8-73 and N.J.A.C. 13:45A- 26F.4.

[mike60173]

Since the dealer did not expose the fact of the cat.converter and engine condition.. could I file a case for misrepresentation of facts.. as 2 years warranty i have is for extra money and 60 days comes along with the purchase.

Just Curious?

Regards

Mike

[Eagle]

You would have to prove that the seller knew about the condition which would require you to hire an expert mechanic to testify in court and that may be expensive. Even then it may be difficult to prove. You should give the dealer an opportunity to fix the problem. If he doesn't then you can sue for breach of warranty.

[mike60173]

hi Eagle,

I towed the car back to used car dealer. The used car dealer is asking 'why the car is here' and actually should go back to the Toyota dealer.

What should I do now? Is this not a breach of warranty? Should I get a letter stating that they cannot service the car? what if do not give a written statement.

Thanks for your advice in advance

Regards

Mike

[Eagle]

The used car dealer gave you a 60 day warranty, right? Pursuant to the NJ used car lemon law they have to give you a 60 day warranty. Now, unless you have an extended factory warranty, I don't see why you need to bring the car to a Toyota dealer (unless the used car dealer is going to pay for the repairs).

[mike60173]

hi Eagle..

I got a call again on 15 May2009 from the used car dealer. After discussion the used car dealer said that he would talk with the service department to check what was wrong with the vehicle and will get back.

This happened on friday. Till now I haven't got a call? How long should i wait? what should be my next step?

Regards

Mike

[Eagle]

First, you should be documenting every call you make to the dealer and preferably have a witness too. If he has not responded yet you should call today and ask whatthe status is. Also, your car may be too old for the NJ used car lemon law.


By the way, here is the NJ used car Lenon Law:


I. NEW JERSEY USED CAR LEMON LAW STATUTE


The New Jersey Used Car Lemon law requires certain minimum warranties and prohibits some common deceptive practices.

56:8-69.Written warranty required; minimum durations

It shall be an unlawful practice for a dealer to sell a used motor vehicle to a consumer without giving the consumer a written warranty which shall at least have the following minimum durations:

a. If the used motor vehicle has 24,000 miles or less, the warranty shall be, at a minimum, 90 days or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first;
b. If the used motor vehicle has more than 24,000 miles but less than 60,000 miles, the warranty shall be, at a minimum, 60 days or 2,000 miles, whichever comes first; or
c. If the used motor vehicle has 60,000 miles or more, the warranty shall be, at a minimum, 30 days or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first, except that a consumer may waive his right to a warranty as provided under section 7 of this act.

A. Exclusions from Act

The provisions of sections 3, 4, and 5 shall not apply to: any used motor vehicle sold for less than $3,000; any used motor vehicle over seven or more model years old; ... or, any used motor vehicle with more than 100,000 miles.

A consumer, as a result of a price negotiation for the purchase of a used motor vehicle with over 60,000 miles, may elect to waive the dealer's obligation to provide a warranty on the used motor vehicle provided that it complies with NJAC 13:45A-26F.18.

[mike60173]

hi Eagle,

Thanks for your reply.

I got a voice mail from dealer today and they have a left a message that they have identified the problem as 'blown head gasket'. They want authorization from me for the deductible based on extended warranty i have taken with them. Since the car was purchased 3 weeks back, should I actually pay this by law? Should it not be covered by 60 days/2000 miles warranty which comes with the car purchase. Extended warranty applies only after initial 60 days.. is my understanding correct?

What should be my next step?

Regards

Mike

[mike60173]

hi..

The dealer took the car and have agreed to fix it. The dealer has sublet the car to another shop for fixing it. The sublet shop wanted to tear down the engine for identifying the problem. They got the approval from the dealer to go ahead. They have found the problem as blown engine. They are going ahead and replacing the same with used engine from salvage yard which comes with 3 months warranty. They have had the car for more than 25 days.

Sublet shop gave me a call today and said car is ready for pick up tomorrow. should I take delivery of the car or should I sue them for breach of warranty?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Mike

[Eagle]

Its a tough call. My suggestion is to go to the shop and ask to test drive it before you sign-off on it or accept the car back as repaired. Hopefully they will let you do that. If the car drives ok then I would be inclined to accept it and therefore have some finality to the situation. Also, make sure you get warranty paperwork for the engine that was replaced. If you have the car for a few weeks and it breaks agains for the same reasons then you can always sue at that time.

[mike60173]

hi Eagle,

thanks for the timely advice. I went to the sublet shop (26 June 2009) and asked them I should have a test drive. They said yes but they would accompany me. I said OK. When he came over to the car, he said he said he will drive. The car started OK, but it was making a load noise whenever the gas pedal was pressed.This never happened before he never took the car to the freeway and max speed he did was 30 mph. I am not sure whether this car is drivable for long distance with safety. I told that I am not comfortable with the condition of the car and walked away without accepting the car. He said he will fix the car next week. Personally I feel this car is not safe at all to drive, as it looks engine is struggling and may blow any time. The car has been in their shop for more than 25 days now. Under this situation what options do I have here?

I appreciate your timely advice and guidance.

Mike